Obviously… but kids aren’t going to stop watching because of some tut tuts and wags of the finger. That just makes them like it more.

I personally think all of these countries suck

All countries in the world suck. I’m from Canada, do you think my country sucks? Maybe not because Canada generally has a good reputation, but I can assure you Canada has done many horrible things in the past. Doing some bad stuff now (pumping out a lot of oil, not good for global warming) but is also doing some good stuff now. Countries are made up of many different people and governments have many departments doing many different things. So Canada sucks and Canada is good. The US sucks and the US is good.

And yes, Israel sucks and Israel is good. Just saw a photo of the hospital in Israel Iran hit with a missile and out in front there was a rainbow flag. It’s the only country in the Middle East where there are gay rights, being gay is illegal everywhere else in the Middle East. Or worse, the Houthis literally crucify gay people.

I’ve just asked this prompt to an unbiased LLM

The thing about LLMs is it’s only aggregating things it finds on the internet. And nation states can (and do!) fill the internet with shit to skew things in their direction. So there’s no such thing as an unbiased LLM. There will be bias within the dataset. If the developers make adjustments to make the answers less biased, that’s just making the LLM match the developer’s bias. Also LLMs don’t really understand things like time and will miss a lot of nuance.

How relevant is a coup in 1953? Maybe to some really old people might remember it, but for most of us it’s just something in a history book. It doesn’t mention the Iran Hostage crisis which is way more relevant. I didn’t mention these (or W’s Axis of Evil bullshit, another instance of a US President being an idiot) because it’s kind of irrelevant once nations make a treaty. The you make a treaty you’re supposed to settle any grudges over the past, otherwise why are you signing the treaty? The Iran hostage crisis might be the one worth mentioning as it’s a big reason why the US won’t be establishing an embassy in Tehran anytime soon. I didn’t mention it because we have phones so it’s probably not that big a deal, but then again the US might be less likely to bomb Iran if they had an embassy there.

Also Israel has tried to make peace with Palestinians in a land for peace deal in the past. It obviously didn’t work out, but the LLM should mention that if it’s going to mention the occupation has been going on a long time. There have been failures in Palestinian leadership, Yasser Arafat was a lying corrupt asshole. Remember what I said about not being supposed to hold grudges when you sign a treaty? That lying bastard signed a treaty with no intention of following it. This is a major reason why Israel doesn’t trust Palestinian leadership.

See if you compile a list of the bad things a country has done, they will always seem evil. But they aren’t sports teams it’s stupid to support them or be against them. I think it’s fair to say to say there are political groups with this countries that suck. And countries will seem to suck when those suck political groups get into power, but it’s really that group within the countries that suck.

Netanyahu sucks, Israelis in general don’t suck. Hamas sucks, Palestinians in general don’t suck. The Ayatollah sucks, Iranians in general don’t suck. Donald Trump sucks, Americans in general don’t suck.

I’m not? Weird question, guess you just ran out of shit to say. Anyway, I think we’re done here. Try to work on not dehumanizing people when you get upset over things. I hope you can become a better person.

I understood that comment. I legit don’t know what you were saying in the previous one.

Ah so you dehumanize both Jews and Palestinians. So you’re a white supremacist type of antisemite.

The way you apply labels to people to dehumanize them makes it difficult for me to understand what you’re even asking. Like do you call all Palestinians “Hamas people”?

I’m not angry… are you sure you’re not angry?

I have concerns that people on this site where everyone is winding each other up with stochastic terrorism talk universally agreeing that certain countries are evil (and some posts indicate some believe everyone in these countries are evil too). There’s a lot of dehumanizing Israelis, and I’ve met few Israelis in my travels, perfectly normal people to talk to and have a beer with or whatever. Israelis aren’t evil colonizers, they’re people born in an area where a lot of people around them hate them for exiting in that area.

So basically I think “everyone sucks here”, but I do think the US is ultimately responsible for most of the conflict. They’ve been meddling in Iran for decades, and Israel has been essentially an extension of the US’s usual bullying for decades

Well it takes two to tango doesn’t it? Well there’s a lot to untangle about this, it’s the Middle East shit’s always complicated.

For the Iran conflict… kinda. But Iran has responsibility too. In his first term, Trump cancelled the agreement that Obama made with Iran. Countries don’t declare war but they give signals like cancelling treaties and start making ultimatums. Trump did all that in his first term. But the thing with Trump is, he’s an idiot. So Trump essentially declared war on Iran and then… didn’t do the war. And then he assassinated an Iranian General which is an act of war. And then didn’t have a war.

There’s levels of stupid to unpack here. First it would be stupid for the US to go to war with Iran as long as they were following the treaty, which all reports indicate they were. But if you make all the moves to start a war, you’re kinda committed and it’s stupid to not have a war after you committed to it. So Trump created a big mess there.

So it’s kinda strange to assign blame to the US because it was all Trump’s incompetence. But I guess Trump was and is the President, so I guess the US (Trump) is responsible for making a mess of a diplomatic agreement that the US (Obama) made with Iran. That sounds so stupid without indicating the Presidents, but here we are. I can’t stress enough how much of an idiot Trump has been. The US doesn’t have a cohesive foreign policy anymore.

But we can’t ignore Iran’s responsibility in this. They have been supporting a lot of terrorist organizations, including Hamas which massacred Israeli villages, took hostages to Gaza forcing Israel into a ground war in a densely populated urban environment. Hamas tactics are designed to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties in attempt to foment hatred toward Israel. Hamas won the propaganda war, though they’ll probably be destroyed along with a significant part of Gaza. But but they successfully spread of Israel so that’s a win?

So Hamas is responsible for the Israel-Hamas war. Hamas is Iran’s proxy, so Iran is complicit in that. And that brings us back to the Israel-Iran conflict.

So Iran is the ultimate source of all of this suffering and destruction. Throughout the region. So does that justify a war on Iran? Maybe maybe not.

But there’s more… Iran has many times officially stated they want to wipe Israel of the map. So they’ve very publicly declared they want to be an existential threat. And there’s been indication from the UN Atomic monitoring agency that Iran has been hiding things in their nuclear program, not answering questions about things and enriching more uranium than the level they agreed to limit themselves to. They also announced they were going to start testing a missile capable of carrying a 2 ton warhead to Israel.

So whether or not the Hamas war justifies Israel going to war with Iran, all of the nuclear stuff does. This is life or death for Israel, if a country that’s said they want to wipe you off the map gets the capability to do so? They can’t allow that to happen.

So Iran is also responsible for this war. Iran’s proxies attacked Israel, the threats of wiping Israel off the map, the nuclear stuff, all of that means there will be a war.

So I guess in summary:

Trump could have NOT cancelled the Treaty. Trump could have NOT assassinated the general. Iran could have NOT supported terrorist groups. Iran could have NOT threatened to wipe Israel off the map. Iran could have NOT done all the the nuclear stuff.

But they did do those things. So there’s sheer incompetence from Trump and a lot of incompetence and horrible actions by Iran and it’s proxies that all added up to a war.

But most people on these threads just reduce all of this complexity down to Israel=bad, US=bad, Iran=innocent victim of the bad guys. It’s really a mix of incompetence and hatred of Israel that’s caused so much destruction. Sure Israel has done some bad things with the settlements, but the level of hatred feels like it stems from a lifetime of indoctrination under fascist rule. Hatred of Israel hasn’t resulted in anything good for Palestinians and it hasn’t done any good for Iranians. I know it’s a problem for some Muslim sects for Jews to be living where they’re living, but at certain point… just release the hostages and accept that Israel has a right to exist. Israel has been convinced to withdraw settlements, but it’s hard to convince them to concede any ground when everyone around them are trying kill them.

I think a Palestinian non-violent resistance movement would be successful in establishing a Palestinian state. Does it really look like a violent movement is being successful?

But a lot of people are acting like elementary school shitheads constantly egging on their classmates to fight. Violence obviously isn’t working for Palestinians, how many of them have to die before everyone realizes that? It feels like people think Palestinians exist only to be cannon fodder just for their sick games.

Few people think more than two or three times a year; I have made an international reputation for myself by thinking once or twice a week. - George Bernard Shaw

In the British Empire, slavery was ended by the abolitionist movement, which involved a lot of labour unions. The British Empire ended slavery a generation earlier than the US did, this was accomplished through non-violent resistance. The British Empire went from the biggest slaving empire in history to being the biggest anti-slaving empire in history. The ending of Amistad where the Royal Navy is detroying the slaver base? That happened… except it was many different bases they destroyed. The Royal Navy put an end to the international slave trade.

It’s weird how history is isn’t it? The British Empire was both evil and good at the same time. Seems things are more complicated than nation good or nation bad.

I forgot to mention before, that one “oppression” that your founding fathers chaffed at was the fact that Britain had treaties they made with indigenous people that fought on their side in the French and Indian war. This meant the 13 colonies were prohibited from expanding westward. Your great Founding Fathers fought for the “freedom” to genocide Indigenous people so they could expand their slave plantations westwards. Great guys!

Anyway after slaver was abolished in the British Empire, an abolitionist movement started growing in the US. One Abraham Lincoln was in that movement and he got elected President. His goal as President wasn’t to end slavery immediately though, but to move the country in a direction where it would eventually end… a generational kind of transition.

Southern states didn’t agree with this government policy so the violently rebelled with the cause of slavery forever. As the war went through the democratic process of what was left of the US, they made the Emancipation Proclamation. When the South was defeated they were forced to end slavery. Abraham Lincoln was shot by a violent protester.

Of course it didn’t really end there. Jim Crow laws segregation and all. But those were put to an end by the Civil Rights movement, a non-violent resistance movement.

So no, slavery was not ended by a violent resistance movement. There was a significant violent resistance against the ending of slavery though.

Are you sure you’re not pro-slavery? You seem to always be picking examples of violent resistance movements that were pro-slavery.

Sorry but history just isn’t on your side on this. Violent movements tend to have violent people leading them. When they “succeed” you have a country being run by violent people. This isn’t likely to lead to good results for the people living in those countries. It certainly hasn’t had a good result for the people of Gaza having violent people leading them, has it?

This isn’t university, you can talk normal here.

George Soros, obviously.

Someone watches his shit.

The intent seems pretty clear to me: leave Israel so Israel ceases to exist.

I never claimed the propaganda was a nothing burger, I claimed it’s directed at the Israeli state, not Israelis or Jews themselves.

“Either you must choose ‘gradual death’ in hellish life in shelters or save your lives from the 24-hour missile rain and flee as soon as possible from the lands usurped by your ancestors, so that you may survive.”

I think the use of the word “ancestors” makes it clear they’re talking to a people of a specific ancestry ie. an ethnicity. They are telling Jews to leave or they will be killed. This is ethnic cleansing. And lets not be so naive that Iran wants Arab-Israelis to leave. They stated that they want ethnic cleansing.

Even if Israel were completely secular, there would still be opposition, because Muslim extremists don’t care what religion occupies the Holy Land, as long as it’s not Muslim, it is the same.

So the original plan 1948 plan of Jerusalem being internationally controlled and open to all religions isn’t acceptable? Well they are extremists, but they extremists like this can’t have any military power because they’re just going to do endless war since they’ll never get what they want.

The power proper solution is regime change, and giving the people there a reason to support their government isn’t the way to achieve that.

If the infrastructure helps keep the regime in power (like systems to monitor people’s activities) then why would want it to remain in place? If Iran can’t see a gathering of people on security cameras, that helps a resistance movement, doesn’t it?

The JCPOA was a step in the right direction, a D we should’ve followed it up with trade deals. IMO, the best way to fight against extremism is through prosperity and trade, so we should be making very attractive deals with countries in exchange for not having or eliminating nuclear weapons (prosperity in exchange for peace). Unfortunately, that’s impossible with Trump in power, and I doubt Iran’s leadership is interested after the US broke the trade deal.

It was never going to be a fast thing. This regime took diplomats hostage which is the biggest no-no in all of diplomatic relations. It’s hard to improve things through diplomacy when you can’t trust a nation enough to have diplomats set foot in their country. Also they’d need to stop their “death to Israel, death to America” stuff. Kinda hard to trust a country that does that. Sure trade increases prosperity, but it also increases access to technology which helps their military. You’d look pretty stupid if you started trade with a country calling for your death, then they used that to improve their military to attack you. Also they’re an oppressive so there’s ethical issue with enriching an oppressive regime. Yeah we enrich the Saudis who are oppressive, but only because we’re stupidly dependent on their oil and don’t have any choice. When we have a choice should we enrich an oppressive regime hoping trade will make it less oppressive? Doesn’t seem like trade with China made their regime less oppressive.

It’s not a given that trade and diplomacy could be improved with this regime, a lot of that was up to them.

Anyway that’s all moot now.

They’re groomed from a young age by the manosphere to be losers that can’t get laid, so they’ll continuously buy self-help books from the manosphere.

They still vote though. And this all happens because to a teenager, the manosphere are the cool guys making fun of the whiny nerds.

I think it’s reasonable to hate someone who is actively trying to kill you, your loved ones, or trying to ruin your life.

Hatred is a failing, not something that should empathized with or rationalized. We know there’s situations that will make people hate, but it’s like someone abused as a child becoming an abuser as a parent. We know it happens but it’s not a thing where we should empathize with the abuser and rationalize their actions so it seems reasonable or legitimate. Sure I try to understand hatred, but in a similar way as I try to understand mental illness. Something that needs treatment, not something that should be spread out of a weird sense of empathy.

There is intent behind the propaganda, but it’s not to genocide Israelis or Jews, it’s to destroy the Israeli state.

“Either you must choose ‘gradual death’ in hellish life in shelters or save your lives from the 24-hour missile rain and flee as soon as possible from the lands usurped by your ancestors, so that you may survive.” https://iranwire.com/en/news/142321-irgc-says-it-fired-2000-kilometer-range-missiles-at-israel/

I guess more propaganda and not intent? This is part of Operation “True Promise” They’ve been promising to wipe Israel off the map… so more propaganda.

Iran keeps promising to ethnic cleansing of Jews, and every thing they say seems to be “seriously, me mean it, it’s we’re making are promises come true now.”

And even if you’re sure that you trust them to be lying, what about the potential for someone that grew up with this propaganda and is a true believer to someday take power?

Hamas was in power in Gaza for a much shorter period of time and the indoctrinated young men to be capable of doing some extremely horrific things in that time. I’m sorry but the propaganda isn’t a nothing burger whether you believe it or not. Some people will believe it and may do horrible things in the future.

Agreed, and I think the same is true for Iran as well. They’re a regional and global pariah, and a nuclear weapon would do a lot to protect the regime. I don’t think Iran should ever have a nuclear weapon, but I also don’t think Israel should be allowed to just destroy their infrastructure.

The regime will immediately start rebuilding their nuclear program if they remain in power. The infrastructure helps keep the regime in power.

I had an Iranian coworker, and they said Iran just needs a strong push and it’ll splinter, since there are many powerful groups that dislike the current regime. I hope that’s what happens with this offensive by Israel

Well prepare yourself, the Ayatollah will use violence to try to remain in power, and that could be a really violent conflict. The Syrian civil war was horrific, over half a million people killed, torture dungeons, mass killings, really terrible things. Hopefully a potential Iranian civil war wouldn’t be so bloody, and maybe with air support for a rebel group it’ll be more like the Libyan civil war. But that’s still tens of thousands dead and Libya is still in a mess today.

I hope that’s what happens with this offensive by Israel, but that doesn’t mean I support Israel’s attack here. I think there are other ways to weaken Iran, and I’d prefer to go that route instead of killing innocents.

I think all of the other ways have been tried, it’s not just Israel that would welcome a regime change in Iran. I don’t think military action should be a thing anyone should be supporting (it’s not a sports team) but sometimes military action is necessary. It would’ve been better if the JCPOA not been cancelled by Trump and the Ayatollah just decided to quit being supreme leader and let Iran decide things democratically. But that’s not the world we live in.

It’s cool, take your time in answering the questions. Critical thinking can be difficult for those that haven’t had a lot of practice with it. There’s no time limit to answer the questions, and the third question is rhetorical, so don’t worry about that one.

It?

Who’s paying you to dehumanize people?

Thanks! Have read Jonathan Swift’s “A Modest Proposal”?

The trick is to figure out a way that forces people to actually think about an issue. People hate thinking!

But it’s really important for people to think about things. In case you haven’t noticed, a lot of things in the world are going in a bad way and too many people are on autopilot just quoting bullshit from the internet. Not good to let algorithms think for you.

When you look at Gaza does that indicate that violent resistance is super successful?

You’ve been reading too much stochastic terrorism stuff.

I’m tempted to call out the origin of the United States, which was violent resistance to an oppressive regime.

You mean that time some slave masters wrote some pretty words about freedom and equality and absolutely nothing changed for the slaves they owned?

I have some ancestors that had to flee political persecution during the American Revolution. When they said they tarred and feathered the “traitors” do you buy that bullshit? The slave masters that founded the United States eliminated political dissent using public torture. Oppressors always label any dissenters to be traitors. Donald Trump does this too.

You were indoctrinated into believing a fairy tale about the foundation of your country so you’d worship “founding father” the same way they worship “big brother” in 1984. The American Revolution changed who had power, it didn’t change anything about the lives of regular people, and certainly didn’t improve anything for the slaves.

I’m from Canada and the founding principle of my country was “we have to work together or the Americans will invade us.” We have more rights than Americans Do you want to guess how many revolutions and civil wars we had to get to where we are?

Most people couldn’t vote in America for much of it’s history. Tell me which revolution resulted in women having the right to vote in America? What revolution ended segregation?

Stochastic terrorists have told you a narrative that violence always works and non-violence always fails. History isn’t on your side unless you read it from the point of view of wealthy land owning slave masters. If your goal is to increase rights and freedoms, non-violence is more effective. If your goal is to get power so you can oppress people then sure, I guess violence works for that.

You are aware Hamas tortures people to death if they speak out against them, right? I guess you just want to always side with the oppressive assholes of history that use violence to gain power.

To paraphrase Jon Lovett, they have “back of the classroom energy” while the left has “front of the classroom energy”.

“Teacher teacher, he said something some people might find offensive! Send him to the principal’s office”

“Thanks for narcing me out, r****d”

“Teacher teacher, he just said the r-word!”

The left just isn’t equipped to deal with the manosphere. Everything the left does just makes the manosphere seem even more cool to the kids.

“The UN is worried about these guys, they must be really badass!”