I see a lot of misinformation about bluesky here, so I want to address a lot of the talking points against atproto/bluesky.

This is partially inspired by accounts like mastodon migration and feditips being really annoying about bluesky.

How Bluesky Works

I see a lot of people misunderstanding how it works.
The network has three main parts:

  1. A PDS – This stands for Personal Data Server. These store information in records, like who you are following, your posts, who you are blocking and your images.
  2. A relay – These crawl PDSes and keep a copy of all the records on them. They give a “Firehose” of all the data on the network (that they crawled).
  3. An AppView – These index and work through the data from the firehose. All interactions are handled through these, meaning if someone follows me on bluesky, that app.bsky.graph.follow record will be crawled by the relay, and recieved by the AppView. https://bsky.app/ is an Appview. Appviews don’t always have to use the relays, https://whtwnd.com/ connects to PDSes directly.

This is different to ActivityPub, where if I follow someone, my server sends that information directly to the other person’s server.

Common misconceptions

An atproto relay is too expensive to run.

https://atproto.africa/ is a second full-network relay run by the blacksky team. We already have a second relay, and they’re not even that expensive to run anymore, a lot of people run non-archival (meaning it doesn’t backfill every post) relays for less than $40 a month.

There is no instances available except for bsky.social

bsky.social isn’t actually an instance, its just the domain name assigned to users by default. This is explained here: https://app.wafrn.net/fediverse/post/f8fc8da8-cd7e-4fae-a895-ac59dc28088f

Wafrn has (opt-in) bluesky support, they act as a PDS and AppView, so if bluesky disappears tomorrow they can switch to the atproto.africa relay. (There is DID:PLC which is a problem, but I’ll get to that later.)

You can’t defederate bsky.social, this proves atproto is centralised!

https://app.wafrn.net/fediverse/post/f8fc8da8-cd7e-4fae-a895-ac59dc28088f also explains this, bsky.social is just the name assigned to users, each PDS has names like https://brittlegill.us-west.host.bsky.network/ (where my account is).

While you could ignore records from a specific PDS on the App layer, its pretty pointless, since atproto is portable/content addressed, meaning a user could seamlessly move to another PDS. (AP does support moving, but its pretty seamful.)

(While I was writing this someone posted a pretty good blogpost about this: https://blog.cyrneko.eu/there-is-no-bsky-social-instance)

Bluesky can censor people in turkey, this proves they’re centralised!

Those posts weren’t removed, people on third party bluesky apps in turkey could still see them.
People in Turkey are automatically subscribed to a Moderation Service which hides those posts, as the government requires it.
If a person unsubscribes, or uses a third party app/server the posts are still there.

Bluesky isn’t decentralised as someone was banned for pointing out the head of T&S liked jailbait porn.

That person came back on a different PDS. They literally are still on bluesky because they joined a different server.

Bluesky went down due to a DDoS, this proves they are centralised!

The DDoS only crashed the Bluesky PDSes. People self hosting were fine.


Wafrn

Wafrn is a federated tumblr alternative. It started off as a tumblr clone, the dev added AP support, and eventually, Atproto support.
Its a great example of how bluesky can be built on.
If bluesky disappeared tomorrow, Wafrn could switch relays to atproto.africa, and still interact with people on other PDSes.


AppViewLite

appviewlite is a cool project I forgot to mention in the original post. It lets you self host an extremely lightweight Appview.
You can crawl PDSes yourself, eliminating the need for a relay.
https://github.com/alnkesq/AppViewLite

The main reason I made this post is because so many people are blindly anti-atproto, without fully understanding how it works and how it can be improved.

There is obviously problems with it, but it does a lot right. (There’s a lot ActivityPub should do, like content addressing, DIDs and composable moderation).

I also think we could do with a better bridge. bridgy isn’t really cutting it right now.


Note on did:plc, its the only centralised part of the network as of now, its essentially the underlying ID every account has. It is possible to use a did:web id instead, which is tied to a website name.


  • Ek-Hou-Van-Braai@piefed.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    21
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    There are only 15,000 out of 36 Million users that are on servers not owned by Bluesky.

    99.96% of users being on one instance isn’t Decentralised even if the technology supports it in theory. If 99.96% of users were on lemmy.world, I wouldn’t call lemmy decentralised even if the technology allows it in theory.

    🧮 Decentralization Scoring System (v1.3)

    📋 Breakdown (Estimates)

    Platform Score Visualization
    📧 Email 95 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    🐹 Lemmy 79 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    🐘 Mastodon 74 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    🟣 PeerTube 94 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    🖼 Pixelfed 42 🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧
    🔵 Bluesky 14 🟥🟥🟥
    🟥 Reddit 3 🟥

    Source

    • irelephant [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      1 day ago

      Define decentralised.
      As per RFC 9518: Centralization, Decentralization, and Internet Standards,

      […] “centralization” is the state of affairs where a single entity or a small group of them can observe, capture, control, or extract rent from the operation or use of an Internet function exclusively.

      [Decentralization is when] “complete reliance upon a single point is not always required” (citing Baran, 1964)

      […] federation, i.e., designing a function in a way that uses independent instances that maintain connectivity and interoperability to provide a single cohesive service.

      • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        Top Provider User Share: bsky.social ≈ 99% → Score: 0/30
        Top Provider Content Share: Nearly all content on bsky.social → Score: 0/30
        Self-Hosting: Server: PDS hosting possible but very niche and poorly documented → Score: 4/20
        Self-Hosting: Client: Mostly official client; some 3rd party → Score: 10/20

        Total: 14/100

        Interesting score

        • Ek-Hou-Van-Braai@piefed.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 day ago

          The scoring system isn’t perfect, and is subjective, but it’s a good starting point to try and measure if something is decentralised.

          I forsee a lot of big companies pretending to be Open-Source and decentralised because it’s good for profits. Just like they pretend to care about Gay rights etc. When it suites them

      • Ek-Hou-Van-Braai@piefed.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        1 day ago

        I like the wiki definition

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization Decentralization or decentralisation is the process by which the activities of an organization, particularly those related to planning and decision-making, are distributed or delegated away from a central, authoritative location or group and given to smaller factions within it.

        Based on this and other definitions I’ve seen, Bluesky is NOT decentralised.

        I struggle to see how a platform of which 99.96% of it’s users are controlled by one entity is Decentralised.

      • grueling_spool@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        I don’t think “decentralised” is the word y’all are disagreeing on. Define platform. Because I think the “platform” you’re talking about is the technology underpinning Bluesky (AT Protocol), which is decentralised, and others here are talking about the Bluesky “platform” itself, as in the service which is a single, centralised implementation of AT Protocol.