I don’t see them cowering, Denmark royalty has even visited Greenland in the face of US Aggression, signifying that they’re willing to fight for it. There’s just no reason to retaliate to the USA shooting itself in the foot over tariffs. What, do EU citizens WANT to pay an additional tax for no reason?
Signing up to buy American weapons and fossils isn’t exact what I’d describe as “good long term strategy”. I’d rather suffer medium to strong economic pain now than have Europe be dependent on the US for the rest of my life. EU citizens are very willing to suffer the economic pain if it means we get to be independent from the US, public opinion has been shifting in that direction for a while even before Trump’s first term, has accelerated with his first term and exploded after his tariff theatrics started.
Nobody wants the EU to retaliate over the tariffs but neither do people want the EU bending the knee and kissing his ring, there is an option where we have a tariff deal without mandatory investments into the US. Paying what boils down to tribute isn’t exactly what the people think an independent EU should look like.
“Being independent” is what the US is doing right now. It means less manufacturing, more expensive goods, and higher risk of war.
Being independent is for Suckers.
The word you are looking for is isolationist, you can be independent and still be globalist.
Look, I’m all for tariffing or embargoing the USA if it’s for a good reason and creates leverage to enact change, such as over the concentration camps, but doing it “for the good of the EU” is a stupid nonsensical thought. EU can only gain through continued trade and joint military activities.
Especially since the US Steel Tariffs are much higher than their automotive and machinery tariffs, making the US more dependent on the UK and EU.
I never mentioned embargoing them, you can trade but the “deal” we currently have more closely resembles tributary payments rather than a trade agreement. There is absolutely no reason for one sided investment guarantees in a tariff deal.
For the good of the EU is to get some autonomy back into key industries, if things turn any more south in the US any weapon system from there might turn into very expensive scrap metal. That is a significant issue of national security, imagine trying to defend your country and a third country can just up and disable your weapons systems. Absolute nightmare fuel.
The same goes with digital infrastructure, Trump could order Microsoft to shut down the entire EU tomorrow and there is no contingency in place for that. The EU’s dependence on the USA was unhealthy when the relationship was amicable and we are far removed from that at this point. This is not some case where 2 democratic systems have a polite disagreement, the USA is actively turning into a fascist dictatorship and we are significantly dependent on that country. This is not good no matter how you look at it and should have caused a massive shift in policy. It somehow didn’t as of yet.
So you want the EU Government to ask Microsoft to move to France or something? You’re not suggesting much at all just saying “I don’t like what’s currently on the table but I also refuse to leave.”
I’ll put this as politely as possible: putting words into someone else’s mouth really does not convey “I do discussions well” at all, that aside:
Forcing Microsoft to just switch countries is no solution at all, the only solution is to build something here and then use it here. Free from US influence. That means no AWS, no Microsoft, no Google involvement. I’m not talking about forcing industry to switch, if they want to be dependent on foreign companies let them but there is no reason for government agencies to be at the mercy of another country.
These general rules should be followed:
- All hardware must be within the EU, run by an EU-based company (the highest parent company must also be EU-based), in today’s world this is essentially critical infrastructure
- The Software chain is as follows (lowest to highest priority): hostile nations (China, Russia) - possibly hostile nations (USA) - neutral nations (Africa, most of SEA) - friendly nations (Switzerland, Norway) - EU countries
- Prevent too many soups for too few chefs, EU wide projects are to be prioritized over nation wide ones. Duplicating work is inefficient and not something that can be allowed given the current situation.
Under consideration of these the following steps should happen:
1 - migration away from Windows, most office computers can be switched almost immediately, regular office use is well supported in the Linux ecosystem
2 - immediate migration away from Windows exclusive, US based specialized Software (for example Photoshop) for Software with existing and applicable alternatives
3 - reduction of computers with Windows exclusive, US based Software where Step 2 is not possible via use on Virtual Machines, access via remote connection
4 - Collaboration with EU based companies to replace any Software from Step 3 (long term target)Obviously what’s mentioned takes time but not doing anything isn’t improving the situation either and as shown by Finland increasing their Linux share from 5% at the start of the year to 20% in July Step 1 should be achievable relatively quickly, which would at least ensure governments remain operational in the, currently unlikely, case of full US hostilities.
As for the military concern: just build more factories, we’ve got most of the know-how we need already, just not enough production of it. There are systems we don’t produce in Europe but nothing too critical, US systems in those categories can be replaced within ~5 years I recon.
I’m trying to think of economic ties that could potentially bind EU countries to the US. We sure as hell don’t make anything over here that I can imagine you need. Norway has that fresh new oil industry but they’re unionized and I don’t think can pump the volume that the US auto industry sucks up.
is it just that we have military presence everywhere in Europe? It feels like most places don’t even need American intervention anymore for anything. UN could probably hold all of its treaties without the US as well at this point, even without our funding and crap. you’d just have to make up the difference in defense funding for places like Isreal but there’s actually a really neat solution to that
We have understood that escalation always results in more escalation. Nobody is cowering, but real might means being about to strike and not needing to.
Europe can’t handle russia on its own
Delulu vibes here
Appeasing Trump is a gamble alright, let’s see how it plays out
Might only take until mid-term elections next year to have dems in power again. That could change things somewhat.
#doubt - but we’ll see ✌️
It’s because they’re liberals. Liberal politicians always surrender to fascists, no matter what they say. It’s necessary in order to keep capitalism going.
They’re not liberals. Have a close look at its current makeup.
Sorry. I got tunnel visioned by the fascist vs libéral vs leftist trichotomy for a while.
