Microsoft is being sued by a man who feels cheated by the current plans to sunset Windows 10. He makes some good points, but I doubt he’ll win.
People will do ANYTHING but switch to linux, huh.
The assumption that you’ll lose a lawsuit against a large corporation probably stops a lot of viable lawsuits from ever happening - good for him for giving it a go.
Hey, Microsoft said 10 was the last version of Windows…
It’s the last version of Windows I’ll ever install, so the statement was accurate but incomplete.
Sometimes YOU have to make changes that you want to see. And not wait for corporations
Good, fuck ‘em.
I’m old enough to remember when MS said Windows 10 would be the last Windows and they’d just update it over time.
Kinda glad that wasn’t the case because those of us who’ve been using Windows 10 all this time would just end up with what Windows 11 is but masquerading as Win 10.
I’m more comfortable with being pushed back into the Linux pool and relearning how to swim those waters.
I hope he wins.
Windows peaked with XP. 7 was alright. 8 was a free fall of a downward slide falloff.
Appified overly complicated slop and bloat filled garbage ever since.
Win 2k pro was best. Fight me;) I hated the fisher price look of XP.
Nah win2k pro was really, really slow compared to xp
I liked Vista. Aero Glass was cool.
the fisher price look of XP.
Thank you for my belly laugh of the day. 😂
It had classic themes available
Nah they peaked at NT4.0! Fight me! I remember using that for my dual core celeron system! Abit BP6 FTW.
(I agree with you about 2k, but I liked XP and loved the look of Vista so what do I know…)
Nah, they peaked at Windows for Workgroups… Bury me, Im that old lol.
You and your fancy workgroups! In my day we had DOS and we were happy!
I started with DOS. Had my mind blown when I upgraded to DOS 3.
Basic, dos and tomcat bbs
DirectX 3.5 only? IIRC.
IDK I liked 7 pretty much as much as I like XP. For me it was 10 that was just alright.
My brother convinced me to switch to 11 when I built my most recent gaming desktop and I somewhat regret listening to him but I know dual booting is a waste of time for me and I’m not quite ready to make the full jump to Linux because my desktop has a 4070 Super. It’ll ahve to wait until my next PC. Fortunately, I don’t have the version of 11 with Recall pre-installed at least.
I use my Steam Deck more than my gaming desktop these days anyway.
Why is the 4070 an issue regarding linux? Nvidia drivers have come a long way since the beginning of the year, currently running modded cyberpunk on my 3070 Ti without issues.
Nvidia on modern Linux (Wayland) is garbage and I’m buying AMD next time.
Like seriously, people will try and tell you “oh you can install the proprietary driver easily now and they’ve come a long way”
Sure, but it’s still garbage. I can’t even full screen a video in Firefox without a it crashing and a bunch of apps simply refuse to work without shitty environment variable hacks to drop back to software rendering
I’m not a noob either, I’ve been using Linux as my primary OS since 2008
Wayland on Nvidia has a lot of issues was the big one for me. I ended up selling my Nvidia card and bought an AMD card instead.
What AMD card did you get? I switched to Linux and want to drop Nvidia.
9070 XT, similar performance to a 5070 Ti. Needs kernel 6.13.5+ and Mesa 25+ but it’s been flawless for me on Arch using the CachyOS kernel.
Performance is still noticeably worse. Based on some cursory research, the 4070 Super gets like ~20% less FPS on Bazzite compared to Windows on a 4070 Super and I tend to play high fidelity shooters on my desktop so frames per second matters.
Fair point. Do you know if they where using the open source driver for thr graphics card? Or Nvidia’s proprietary one? Because I’m on Fedora using the Nvidia driver and I dont notice that much of a fps drop. It is some, maybe 5-10%
That’s also my experience, and with experimental wayland and ntsync support in wine 10 it feels even smoother (but i don’t have numbers to back it up - maybe i’ll benchmark wine 9 & 10 parallel, if i do i append the info here)
Why does the 4070 super keep you from switching to Linux? I have a gaming PC with a 4070 and I dont really have issues. No more than I did with windows in general
They are a monopoly protected by patents. Completely unamerican philosophically.
I agree that windows should not stop supporting previous versions of windows. Especially when going from windows 10 to 11 wasn’t at all that big of a change. They very easily could have waited longer before making windows 11 the standard or even windows 11 period because it was not that big of a change.
Unfortunately they did not do anything illegal in my opinion but we’ll have to see how this plays out I guess.
And windows 10 will be the last windows. Did everyone forget that??
I remember!
If you don’t switch on SecureBoot, that can still be the truth.
Can you tell me more about what secure boot does in this correct? (Assuming this isn’t a joke)
If you don’t enable SecureBoot then you can’t install Win 11.
As a bonus, you won’t be able to install the latest Call of Duty or Battlefield titles either.
Call of Battle and Duty Field?! And I thought not installing Win11 was a great experience! I can’t wait to not buy and not play both of those games!
Thanks SecureBoot!
Except you technically can. Windows 11 registry allows for installation without secure boot and its called after the upgrade process, thats what things like rufus patch to allow it.
Now idk if secure boot has to be enabled for windows 10 to consider it upgrade ready, but its technically all in thereOkay but you should enable secure boot on any device you want to keep any level of private data on. It’s trivial to break into a device that doesn’t have it enabled if you can physically access it. Laptops especially should have secure boot enabled.
Yeah, but I might need to break into it to access it, e.g. if hardware dies, or Windows has a fit and breaks something.
This also why I don’t do whole disk encryption; it makes recovery impossible
The thing is on desktop pcs… If someone got physical access to it you don’t want to… You got way bigger issues haha
I’d argue that you now have two major issues. Someone breaking into a house and stealing a desktop isn’t unheard of. Full disk encryption with secure boot deployed will save you the headache of also having your identity/bank account/cc info stolen a few days later.
I mean I would rather use linux if I could get away with it. Unfortunately I have a lot of engineering programs on my pc that I know for a fact would definitely not run on linux which sucks I guess since I am stuck with windows. I thought about dual booting my pc but then immediately realized that is problematic XD.
You can try to put the engineering programs in dedicated snapshotted windows VMs and basically time-capsule them as a working tool forever that never changes and works on any machine.
Your right but that would have massive performance issues. I could definitely do that and that is not a bad idea but I also have a steam deck now for most linux things I do but yes you are right.
You can dual boot using separate drives. This has worked for me without any issues and I routinely use solidworks.
Stupid question. How did you do that without having the drives interfere with windows? When I have done that it massively screw up my windows boot somehow and it made everything weird. Basically I had to uninstall it because it was massively grating on my nerves what it was doing to my os. Basically it changed the time and date to a few decades in the future and I could not get around to fixing it. It also caused issues where I couldn’t access certain sites online because of the issues I was having with my pc and the fact the date was so far in the future. Thanks!
He’d probably have an easier time with the lawsuit if instead of appealing to upgrade logic, he just went with, I don’t know…
THE TIME MICROSOFT PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED WINDOWS 10 WOULD BE THE LAST NUMBERED VERSION AND THAT THEY’D NEVER NEED TO UPGRADE OS VERSION AGAIN.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32658340
Pepperidge Farm remembers, Microsoft scum.
Its funny since when the .iso for Windows 11 first became available, it would state you were installing Windows 10 or even Windows Server edition but after installing, it would be Windows 11
Window build numbers are still Windows 10.xxxxxx
To be fair, win 11 is more or less win 10 just with a shittier UI and even more intrusive bullshit.
No, they never did. Yes, it was all over the news, but they literally didn’t. Go be angry at media for making stuff up. You don’t have to believe me, go ahead and find that announcement yourself. You won’t because there was never such an announcement.
Notice how even the article you linked doesn’t give a full quote? It just quotes someone saying “last version” without any context of the sentence it was used in? I will give you the full quote where that comes form. Someone asked a Microsoft developer what they are currently working on, and the answer was:
”Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10.”
It is obvious from context “last version” meant “latest version” here. And that misreading of a quote, conveniently not included in most articles, is the only source for all these news. No announcement. No journalist actually asking Microsoft about it. Just a fleeting comment by one Microsoft employee that obviously meant something else, in an answer about something else, but why let that get in the way of a good story.
And this was an answer to an audience question in a "Tiles, Notifications, and Action Center” presentation by a single Microsoft developer, on a developer conference. The absolute last place to look for a ground-breaking announcement about Microsoft’s future.
The company said it had yet to decide on what to call the operating system beyond Windows 10.
And the exact same article you linked confirms Microsoft is still deciding on the name for the next Windows? Which would make no sense if there was no next Windows?
“There will be no Windows 11,” warned Steve Kleynhans, a research vice-president at analyst firm Gartner.
There will be no Windows 11, says some guy who doesn’t work at Microsoft.
And then a bunch of cherry picked quotes about continous updates being a good thing. Yep, continous updates, just like we got in Windows Vista, and that have nothing to do with there not being new Windows versions.
Modern journalism is useless. Someone made up a thing, everyone else copied it. And not a single media outlet actually asked Microsoft about it. No one. Or maybe they did, but the answer meant there is no news, so let’s ignore it.
“Modern journalism is useless”, but when Jerry Nixon said “last”, you’re telling us he really meant “latest.”
Go on, pull the other one. No really, it’s got bells on it.
It’s really not hard to find the original statement from Microsoft, which was made by a Microsoft employee.
At the 2015 Ignite conference, Microsoft employee Jerry Nixon stated that Windows 10 would be the “last version of Windows”, a statement reflecting the company’s intent to apply the software as a service business model to Windows, with new versions and updates to be released over an indefinite period.[68][69][70] In 2021, however, Microsoft announced that Windows 10 would be succeeded on compatible hardware by Windows 11—and that Windows 10 support will end on October 14, 2025, marking a departure from what had been dubbed “Windows as a service”.[71][72]
Did you even read my comment? I already addressed what you said, and already included the quote.
But I really like how in the text you copied, “Windows 10 is the last version of Windows”, a factual statement about the newest version of Windows at the time, was editorialized into “Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows”, a statement about the future that was never said.
Wish I could upvote you more. So sick of hearing about the “W10 is the last version of Windows” story.
Got you fam. You get an upvote too.
Nixon wasn’t speaking authoritatively there, I believe both he and M$ clarified that. And the “correlating” announcement was more “we will be continuously updating windows 10” unlike the assumed by many people to mean “perpetually” which is just silly.
You’re telling me you expected windows 10 to remain forever the last Windows version? Maybe if they decided to rename the OS moving forward.
I suppose you could take the stance of it just becoming versioned in the same way Linux distros are, but then you just get left being on an old version of Windows 10.
“perpetually” which is just silly.
That’s basically how Linux works, especially if you use a rolling release distro like Arch, openSUSE Tumbleweed, or Fedora Silverblue.
Honestly, if Windows followed a similar policy, I think people would be less interested in alternatives. Perhaps charge for access to new features, drop support for older hardware, etc, but let people keep using it if they like it.
There’s nothing that would change here other than the name of what’s installed. People would still be unable to update to the new version.
No, I didn’t expect that, which is why it was stupid to say it in the first place. You can’t turn this around and put it on the customer to have to read between the lines what the business is trying to actually say. How about, the multi-billion dollar company that has entire buildings full of lawyers doesn’t make claims that it can’t back up?
I’m not saying it’s right to expect that the Windows operating system was never going to have to have a paid upgrade again, but it was also stupid and wrong to make the claim that it wouldn’t. That’s on them. Nobody held a gun to their head and told them to lie to their customers and then later claim they didn’t mean it. And furthermore, why give them the benefit of the doubt? You think if you were in trouble because of something stupid you said, Microsoft is going to come to your aid? Is it being fair? To a company that wouldn’t care if they accidentally bankrupted you with a forced update?
And sure, they can "clarify"all they want that he didn’t mean the words that he said precisely and accurately in unambiguous English. It doesn’t change the fact that he’s not some random employee. He is an executive. He knows, and everyone else should know as well, that he speaks as a representative of the company. Otherwise what’s to keep them from lying through their teeth about whatever features they want? “It prints free money! It’ll cure all your diseases! No, no… he didn’t mean that.”
Again, an employee speaking off the cuff in an unofficial way isn’t “the company making claims.”
If this was the janitorial staff, would you have taken them at their word? An intern who waddled on stage? Granted Nixon had a little more authority within the company than either of those individuals, but he was by no means in a position that anyone paying attention would take his word on this particular statement.
The issue here is that the media took this “random” employees word as gospel and without getting clarification ran with dozens of “ThiS Is tHe lASt vErSIoN oF wINdOwS!” clickbait articles. All fact checking thrown out the window, no proper follow up. They just spun an entire story out of his off the cuff statement.
Edit: It should be clarified: Nixon wasn’t an executive. He was a software developer. I don’t believe he was even a “senior software developer” at the time.
Because MS went back on their promise that Win10 would be the last, you can no longer trust anything they say.
That wasn’t legally binding.
That was advertised.
I doubt that would hold up in court as false advertising given the significant time gap between them marketing Win 10 that way and them releasing Win 11.
It’s a free upgrade. Bitching about the version is insane. It was a marketing change they turned around on. It still meant you get a free upgrade which used to cost money.
Not if your PC doesn’t support some arbitrary requirements. I can’t upgrade because of the TPM requirement. There are ways to get around it. But at the same time Windows 11 isn’t really something I want to upgrade to. It’s got a bunch of crap I don’t need or want. Not that Windows 10 didn’t. Windows 11 is just worse and I’ve drawn a line.
I have to use Windows 11 for work so I know what I’m missing. Nothing. Well, the screenshot button being mapped to the snipping tool is nice. But there is already a shortcut for the snipping tool.
TPM isn’t arbitrary, it’s the path to a new from of CPU embedded, digital rights management that will marry your software to your cpu and make it non-transferable. The end goal being some successor of pluton where all code you download is encrypted and you can’t ever see it.
You won’t be able to jailbreak your PC in the future, just like 99% of smartphones.
Absolute nonsense 🤣
Hail the corporate god! Repent, for the end of Windows 10 is near!
Judging from your username, you also like those built-in AI features.
No, just an understanding how a court room works.
His response had nothing to do with a courtroom you negative IQ weirdo
Let me quote the literal first line in this thread.
He’d probably have an easier time with the lawsuit if instead of appealing to upgrade logic, he just went with, I don’t know…
Boy you look foolish 🤣
Win 11 is a downgrade with forced ms accounts, more ads, more distractions (tabloid “news”, weather, more ads, Microsoft own product ads) added to task bar, edge and notifications. On an OS I already paid money for!
And? What does that have to do with a lawsuit? You’re going to go into court and argue that? It’s amazing how hard it is for some to stay on topic.
You’re the one coming in here with some bullshit argument. Nobody was complaining about the price of the upgrade until you came along and went off topic.
Ah got it, you are some AI bot trying to troll.
🤡
Even if he does win, it’s still Windows, still under their control. It’d be maliciously and quite supraliminaly enshittified until it’s unusable. Just slap on a CachyOS or anything else open source
The end of the article misses one possible way to deal with your computer, migrating to Linux. It’s not possible for all the mass of people, but it’s still a possibility.
I feel like Linux right now is where Windows was in the XP days. for 90% of users it will work out of the box for them. They will be able to check their email, watch YouTube, doom scroll on their choose social media. The challenge is that for the other 10%, the learning curve is a lot steeper than XP was. The learning curve problem is compounded by the massive pile of guide for deprecated sub systems.
It’s been clear for years now that I’ll have to fully switch over to Linux eventually once Windows is completely locked down like Macs are. The Steam Deck has been a great stepping stone to getting more comfortable with using it.
Hell yes.
Switch to Mint, folks! It’s easy and works just like Windows, except better.
It very much is. If you’re willing to invest a few hours of your time to learn something new, you can absolutely switch to Linux.
There is still a lot of software and some very popular games that just don’t work on Linux.
That’s the real problem. You have to be willing to swap out some things. Fortunately, game options seem better than the have ever been, but the old advice was to just game on consoles.
I’ve seen this episode before. something, something, WinXP.
Looking into switching to Linux…
It’s much easier to install Linux these days than it is to install Windows. And with KDE Plasma the user experience is really similar. As for the distribution I would suggest OpenSuse as that has very little requirement for terminal commands, they’ve packaged GUI elements in the whole distro.
As for Tumbleweed vs regular, that’s up to you. I’m happy with Tumbleweed.
I’m happy with Tumbleweed too, but I Max need to point out that the documentation kinda sucks and the community is kind of small. If you’re confident in applying documentation from other distros, you’ll be fine.
I generally recommend Linux Mint to new users because the community is large and accustomed to helping new users, and you can use documentation for Ubuntu and Debian generally without issue.
Check out openSUSE once you figure out what you like and don’t like about Linux distros, it’s a great end game IMO.
As someone who recently made the switch, DM me if there’s anything I can help with. A lot of the Linux Bros on here will be completely unhelpful out of smug superiority. Also, if you have an HP, you will almost certainly have to do a LOT more work (I had to learn to edit GRUB config files pre-startup). It will be much easier if you don’t have an HP. Anyway, open offer. Also, do Linux Mint.
I’m in the process of switching myself. Threw Ubuntu Studio on my laptop (Samsung Galaxy Book3 Ultra) and I’m currently testing for audio and music production to see if I can make the switch on my main PC for work. I’m loving it so far, though it’s looking like a step back for audio production unfortunately. That being said, where there’s a will there’s a way!
May you run into a nerd with a Ventoy USB full of beginner-friendly distros in their back pocket to help you along your journey.
There are at least two of us out there, I’m sure of it.
I keep a ventoy USB in my backpack at all times.
Currently I have mint popos endeavour cachy bazzite fedora opensuse. I’m thinking of adding a few more. Maybe add nixOS and Debian to the mix.
HeliumOS, Kubuntu, Linux Mint (standard and Debian Edition), Pop!_OS, Ubuntu, VanillaOS, and Zorin OS here. Helium and Vanilla are not necessarily beginner-friendly but I use them in specific places.
And a pack of condoms ?
What, for people to wear on their fingers to keep oil off or something?
Or maybe just put Arch in that Ventoy USB. (Yeah, yeah, I use Arch, btw.)
Bought an iodd a few months ago to do my part 🫡
I keep a keychain in my backpack for jusr such an ocassion!
Do it.
If you have an old laptop, put Linux on it, get comfortable using it. Then when you are ready, make the full switch on your main computer.
I have used Linux for a few years mostly on my servers, but that’s what I did to get used to the desktop experience. I setup a second SSD to have the option of dual booting if I needed it. That was back in March and I haven’t booted into Windows once.
If not, look around, you can buy off-lease corporate laptops and ultra-small desktops that are just old enough to not support 11 for a song. They lack a GPU for good gaming, but they tend to be extremely well supported on Linux and are not slow. For the price of a Windows license, you can have something to learn on without effecting your main computer.
Seconded on do it. It’s a lot better than it was even a few years ago.
I’m the same, I’ve got a perfectly good desktop machine that isn’t Win11 compatible, as well as a Windows 11 laptop.
Most of what I do on the desktop is browser based, and I have the laptop in case I brick the desktop, so nothing to lose by trying.
Ironically, if I’d been able to upgrade to 11, there’s no way I’d bother with any of this.
You can upgrade to 11, nothibgs stopping you.
But it is far smarter to quit with the abusive, and spying, environment.
Linux is easy and works.
As someone who recently made the switch, DM me if there’s anything I can help with. A lot of the Linux Bros on here will be completely unhelpful out of smug superiority. Also, if you have an HP, you will almost certainly have to do a LOT more work (I had to learn to edit GRUB config files pre-startup). It will be much easier if you don’t have an HP. Anyway, open offer. Also, do Linux Mint.
Its a fun fantasy but Microsofts pockets are way too deep to lose to some avarage joe.
Also they can be exempt from the law by gifting donnie and co gold, or initiating “christian friendly initiatives”.
Lol who downvoted this
Uhhh what about Apple?
It’s a) well enshittified to be cumbersome to use without apple’s shitty cloud, b) quality control is really bad last few releases and c) just a different class of a same phylum of fucking corporate roaches
That’s like switching from Tesla to BMW and paying the premium for the heated seats and adjustable shock absorbers to work.
Huh?
That’s switching from EvilCorp A to EvilCorp B, and paying a premium for everything. It’s a valid decision, but not a good one.
I wasn’t suggesting switching to Apple. I was suggesting we sue Apple, who offers far less support.
Oh, that makes sense. I totally misunderstood 🙈
Yes. Old Apple computers are great… for running Linux. Mac OS tends to shut down.
No one cares about Macs.
Several million people who buy them every year certainly do.
Several million nobodies lol
🐧🐧*🐧🐧🐧=🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧
